[23.10 Desktop] Add a feature to automatically periodically re-optimize FSRS parameters

I’m afraid that’s not the conclusion I reached. I feel like automatic optimisation is something that would be nice to have, but is far from essential. You’ve already stated that FSRS with the default parameters is going to perform better than SM-2 on average. Assuming that’s correct, surely new users would be better off being switched over to FSRS even if they never change their parameters from the defaults / optimise for their collection.

If anything, I feel like this feature is mainly going to benefit/be appreciated by power users who are concerned with maximum efficiency.

The delay would be when the card is answered, not when it’s revealed, and will depend on things like how active the system is. 500ms is a long amount of extra time to wait, and is definitely noticeable even at that point.

2 Likes

@dae, what is your opinion on my idea?

Though I suggested it as the first step for developing the automatic optimization feature, I think that it will be helpful for resolving sync conflicts caused due to manual optimization too.

I mean, if the changes in the sync code will be required later when we develop automatic optimization, why not make the changes now so that the conflicts caused by manual optimization are also resolved?

By now, I mean the next 1-2 months (presuming that automatic optimization will take much more time to be implemented).

Plus, making the sync changes early means that we can resolve sync conflicts when automatic optimization is implemented even if the user has a slightly older Anki version on some device.

The changes you proposed are not practical with the current way syncing is implemented. Changing this would be a significant undertaking, and will need to wait for some future revision of the sync protocol.

1 Like

Dae, with all due respect, your thought process is a mystery to me. Are you seriously saying “Users will not get the full benefit of FSRS, and that’s actually a good thing?”
If you are going to implement something, some feature, then you should make sure that users get as much benefit from it as possible. If you’re not trying to make the user experience as smooth (in the “no unintuitive and complicated actions are needed” sense) as possible and their learning as productive as possible, then what are you trying to do?

No. I was responding to your comment:

You claimed this is a necessary feature for making FSRS the default; I disagreed.

[changed my opinion on AO]

I think the only test FSRS (default params) needs to pass if it is to become the default scheduler is “being better than SM2 (default settings)” which I believe it already is. If I assume people do not tweak any of their settings then still for most of the population SM2 shouldn’t be the better working scheduler, If I’m correct.

Now the point being raised here is that you need FSRS to be usable out-of-the-box for which AO is a necessary feature but SM2 (defualt settings) isn’t always usable out-of-the-box either and needs optimisation for itself.

You can surely use SM2 (default settings) as it is but later on, if you want to optimise the settings you will have a much better experience with FSRS. Improving this experience with AO is good idea but I believe AO shouldn’t be a necessary precondition for turning the FSRS toggle on by defualt.

Apart from the five different multipliers, FSRS also gets you rid of two extra settings.

I don’t assume changing default scheduler should have any “blockers” at this point, unless you’re looking at this in isolation. Even without FSRS stats, even without the simulator, even without all the add-on features, removing SM2 as default still gets us a negative opportunity cost. @dae

Now as for AO, I think “periodic reminders” are pretty good alternative and I like the dopamine on hitting the optimize button. I don’t mind putting AO back on the backburner. I think eventually if AO is to be done then what needs to change is the way syncing happens as @vaibhav has said.

I think “periodic reminders” are pretty good alternative

Not for people who don’t even know about optimization in the first place, which will be the majority once FSRS becomes the default.

I assume you agree with the rest of my writing, specifically when I said AO isn’t a necessary precondition for making FSRS replace SM2. Now as for “periodic reminders” I am not sure if this is doable but I’m thinking of a pop-up that explains optimisation in around two sentences and shows a button that you are asked to click.

edit: also warn people about possible sync conflicts in red.

I assume you agree with the rest of my writing

I don’t agree that making FSRS the default without AO is a good idea, but pop-ups are better than nothing. If I have to choose between pop-ups and AO, I chose AO. If I have to choose between pop-ups and nothing, I chose pop-ups. If FSRS will become the default without AO and without pop-ups…well, if I was a PR guy and my boss told me to somehow convince users that it’s a good idea, I’d ask for a resignation.

IMO, we should also consider the complexity of the implementation. High complexity will induce high cost of maintenance in the long term.

To myself, FSRS-5 is in progress, and I’m refactoring the simulation function. I plan to use a simple alternative method based on expectation to simulate the stability transition during the short term schedule instead of using a sampling-based method. It may result in a slight inaccuracy but it’s simple to implement (still a little complex, but more simpler than the sampling method). I think it is a trade-off.

Alright, say there are 4 “levels” of efficiency:

  1. SM-2 by default
  2. FSRS by default, without pop-ups and without AO
  3. FSRS by default, with pop-ups
  4. FSRS by default, with AO

We all agree that 4 > 3 > 2 > 1, right?
@dae I want to ask you too. Ideally, level 4 is how Anki should work. If level 4 is unattainable right now (due to syncing issues), do you think that level 3 is feasible? I would be ok with level 3, but not with level 2. Level 2 feels like too much wasted potential.

And just to clarify, pop-ups shouldn’t depend on whether the user used “Optimize all presets”, like right now.

1 Like

What are the disadvantages of what 2 are doing now and then 3 or 4?

If choose between:

  1. 1 level and wait for the implementation of 3 or 4.
  2. Go to 2 and wait for the implementation of 3 or 4.

Then I choose the second one.

I hope option 3 is implemented without pop-ups. Somehow Anki got along without them before. Let it go on.

I think Expertium would agree that 3 or 4 inplemtation can happen in smaller multiple steps.

I think if FSRS were to become the default scheduler, some changes will need to happen around the same time.

I have noticed that the word SM2 isn’t mentioned anywhere except the tooltip for FSRS. In stead of using SM2 equivalent terms like Anki is used instead. I believe we should be following the same precedent.

To make things intuitive & user friendly—

  1. Rename the FSRS category to Scheduling.

  2. Replace the FSRS toggle with a toggle for SM2 instead. This will be placed in Advanced. Information about FSRS will be put in the tooltip for this.

  3. Rename FSRS parameters to parameters.

  4. The yellow box with the message “Please ensure all of your Anki clients are…” will need updating.

  5. Update all relevant tooltips to reflect the changes made. I found these will need updation: tooltips for FSRS parameters, Ignore reviews before, Reschedule cards on change and Historical retention.

[edit: the manual would need to be updated. there should be a seperate section for SM2 specific settings like “easy interval” and “minimum interval” just as there is a seperate section for FSRS now.]