Language learners: What do you do to make sure you are learning cards rather than brute-force repeating them?

I have seen several posts/comments that mention the importance of learning cards and not just pressing “Again” until you’ve seen them enough times to brute-force memorize them.

For some content like facts about physiology, it is clear that learning requires understanding, and that that understanding should come before you start doing spaced repetition.

But for language-learning, I’m not sure what it means to “learn” a word beyond to repeat it until it is remembered. Sometimes there can be some additional understanding involving roots the word may share with other words, but often there isn’t.

To me that repetition is often the first step, to load the word into my brain, then it builds from there as I start encountering the word when actually using the target language. But that works better for some words than for others - the verb for “to hide” is going to come up in a lot of places, the noun for “toilet plunger” may only ever get practiced in Anki.

Then there’s also words I end up pressing “Again” on a lot. Often due to misremembering the word in a subtle-but-important way, like being unsure of the Spanish verb for invite is invitar or invitir. In these cases repetition from pressing Again doesn’t seem to help, I don’t remember what was the correct answer and what was the answer I kept getting wrong. Sometimes I try to remember those with funny little phrases like “I didn’t invite the ants” to remind me that it’s -ar. Other times I’ll say the word out loud a bunch of times, because remembering the sound may help with remembering the letters.

To other language learners - what do you do to make sure you are “learning” a card and not just brute-force memorizing/repeating it?

I take that to mean “spend a few seconds with the card instead of pressing ‘Again’ immediately”. For me that means listening to the sentence a few times and paying attention to the sounds of each individual character.

Sometimes however, there’s nothing to do about it, so you either have to fail the card over and over, or suspend it.

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For some content like facts about physiology, it is clear that learning requires understanding, and that that understanding should come before you start doing spaced repetition.

It’s the same with language. Language isn’t learned with flashcards. We take a book at your level, read it, and pick out new words we encounter. Just as it was in the sentence, we write it down on a flashcard.
The same applies to knowledge of any subject: we memorize important definitions from an Anki, but we can’t fit so much into an Anki. Anyone looking at an object sees in it what they already know about it (what’s already in their head). If you give a sentence from a language to someone who hasn’t studied the symbols at all, such training is useless. Everything needs to be sequential: first, learn the symbols, then how to construct syllables or meanings from them, then how to combine them into sentences, and so on. All this applies to any learning.

Other times I’ll say the word out loud a bunch of times, because remembering the sound may help with remembering the letters.

When learning new words, learning at least three times is a must, not just a suggestion. It’s also recommended to write the word down. Even if you don’t have a pen, at least mentally write it down on the wet sand by the seashore… the silence, the calm, you enjoy it. This is already a psychological method :slight_smile:
So, there’s no way to quickly learn a card this way, but you shouldn’t even start learning it; you’ll first skim through it a few times. Of course, when it’s your deck and you come across a word in the text, you learn it this way before creating the card… or you learn it in class, where you also do several repetitions. And once you’ve created a card, that doesn’t mean you know nothing about it… no, you already know a lot about it, and Anki helps you repeat, that is, bring the answer to the card almost instantly, a couple of seconds at most per card. But when that happens is entirely up to you, and most likely, it won’t be on the first day. But if it takes you 10 seconds or more to recall a simple word every time, then you’re not remembering it, unfortunately, but that’s cheating. You should memorize it to reduce your response time, but that’s only for words; sentences and definitions take longer just to pronounce them. The approach is the same: if you can pronounce it instantly, quickly and clearly, then you’ve remembered it. If not, then you’ve deceived yourself again.

Sometimes I try to remember those with funny little phrases like “I didn’t invite the ants” to remind me that it’s -ar.

Mnemonics are allowed, but they’re like crutches for a sick person—you have to throw them away and run. Until you run, you won’t think quickly, and this will affect your studies. You must quickly define every word in a sentence, whether it’s a language or a mathematical definition. If you don’t constantly learn mathematical definitions, you’ll lose track of everything later, and the lecture is wasted (I’m generally a proponent of preparing for lectures and coming prepared so you know what questions to ask the professor).
I’m not at all against mnemonics, but it’s advisable to use them to remember complex words, numbers, and so on. There are many methods, and mnemonics is simply a method for retaining knowledge, but then you’ll be constantly repeating it. Essentially, it’s like an ankle, but in your head.

To other language learners - what do you do to make sure you are “learning” a card and not just brute-force memorizing/repeating it?

I add a field to the cards where I can type or speak a word or sentence. That is, the sound is recognized, or you type and memorize it that way. Then, on the back, I pronounce the word (sentence) once in the foreign language, then in my native language, then again in the foreign language—that’s the minimum. Sometimes cards can be pronounced three times, by different people or different audio systems. This is very useful for learning. If you can make three different sentences from different videos, that’s also great.

not just brute-force memorizing/repeating it?

You know, this method works too. We can all remember a song verse because it’s repeated many times and often rhymes. So there’s the rhyming method or singing the words. Other teachers advise practically shouting the words, but at least saying them is the bare minimum, which is really helpful.
From the Pimsleur method, we can see how useful it is to repeat a word literally every few words. It’s also helpful to ask questions, because it activates the brain, and a person sees that the information will be needed, which means I need to remember it now, otherwise they’ll ask me about it very soon. All these methods are used by long-time teachers, and not only teachers, but also tutors. They repeat many times, clarifying from other angles, to assess whether the person has truly understood the topic.
I’m surprised, but sometimes people don’t know how to learn. Everyone seems to be learning, perhaps you’re learning poetry. It’s also useful for foreign words, since rhyming makes everything easier to remember. I can share a method for those who find it difficult. You know, the problem with some teachers is that they’ve had a perfect memory since childhood, and they don’t know how to teach someone who has trouble with it.
Let’s say there’s a poem or a sentence, no matter what it is:

  • listen to it first at a slow speed
  • read the word slowly, then read it again faster, and then even faster.
  • read another word the same way; if you know it, once is enough.
  • combine these words and read again. If these phrases make sense, then it’s even more useful to pronounce such a phrase now, imagining the meaning.
  • do the same with another phrase, which will also make sense.
  • repeat the first and second phrases, perhaps this will be the entire sentence.
  • do the same for the other sentence.
  • then repeat both sentences.

If you’ve finished reading a paragraph or one column of a poem, you need to recall it from memory. If you can’t remember, replace all the words with their first letters. Then, when you can remember them, use only the first letters at the beginning of sentences. You can replace words with pictures you draw and then retell them that way.
In mnemonics, you need to replace the meaning of a sentence with a picture and place it at the location of your mental walk, meaning you have a familiar path you always mentally walk. Anyone who has studied mnemonics knows what I’m talking about.
All these methods aren’t based on a good memory, so not every teacher might know about them. However, over the course of their lives, they might discover methods that improve students’ academic performance. Unfortunately, these methods aren’t written about in books, as they’re not scientific and are considered nonsense.

Let me say right away that I’m not an expert in languages…or programming languages, even though I’ve studied about eight and maybe use five or six.

I’ve always been interested in the development of human intelligence. Perhaps because I don’t have a perfect memory myself. :slight_smile: So, I’ve been interested in all this for a very long time (over 30 years now), but that doesn’t mean I’ve become a professional. No, I’m simply curious, and when I have free time, I study something, sometimes creating programs that might be at least a little useful to people. But unfortunately, very few people can learn on their own, so anyone interested in Anki here is probably an exception.

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Everyone’s different and you’ll probably get conflicting advice, but here’s what I do:

I don’t use Anki to learn new words. I only use it to review words I already know.

In Options, I set the Daily Limits for New cards/day to 0.

Therefore creating a new note doesn’t automatically cause its cards to enter learning and review right away.

That way, a card only ever starts getting reviewed if you do an initial “Grade Now…” for that card, which I only do if I think there’s a good chance of remembering it organically and naturally when it will be due for its next review.

So basically I do the language learning process outside of Anki by engaging with comprehensible input and AI chatbots and so on, and only use Anki for “not forgetting”.

Let vocabulary ripen a bit in your mind before tossing it onto the Anki treadmill, rather than trying to brute-force memorize it before its time. Otherwise, you end up with exactly the kind of Again-Again pitfalls you describe in your post.

One caveat: I’m learning on my own. But if you have a specific list of vocabulary items you need to learn in a classroom setting with deadlines and scheduled exams, that would be a different story. Then maybe you have no choice but to force the issue.

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I really think this approach is the wrong way around.

To “learn” a word you have to gradually familiarize yourself with a whole lot of implicit baggage regarding usage. Where does it fit in the spectrum of informal/formal, colloquial/literary, connotations, slang appropriateness in different situations, suitable everyday vocabulary versus words that sound great if used sparingly but weird if you overuse them, unspoken rules about how words can be combined. For example “big” and “large” are synonyms, but shirt sizes are always “large” and never “big”. “Hide” and “conceal” are synonyms, but one is just a bit more formal, and one can be used intransitively while the other can’t. And so on, with countless other examples.

You only pick up on that by encountering words often in context in natural sentences, and in doing so you also gradually solidify your understanding of their meaning. Otherwise you’ll do things equivalent to cram-memorizing “plummet” as a thesaurus synonym for “fall” and then using it wrongly and unnaturally in a sentence like “He tripped while walking on the sidewalk and plummeted to the ground.”

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At what point do you use Anki then?

It seems like if you are acquiring language in that way, you might not use flashcards at all?

Personally I really appreciate the vocabulary boost of flashcards so that comprehensible input can be comprehensible. I refine my usage of the word as I hear it in more contexts, but first I have to have the word in my head and know it’s something related to falling or I won’t retain much about the contexts I hear it in.

Anki’s good for upgrading passive vocabulary to active vocabulary. Being able to come up with the word on your own versus merely understanding it when others use it.

It’s also good for the basic review function of not forgetting what you’ve learned, keeping a word “propped up” in your mind if you haven’t encountered it lately in natural sentences.

With languages, I also often find that learning a new word can interfere with your knowledge of an old word, because they are too similar in some way and clash in your mind. Like, maybe a learner of English learns the new word “colander” and suddenly they temporarily can’t remember how to spell or pronounce “calendar” anymore. So Anki can alert you when that happens.

In general Anki identifies weak areas that you can then reinforce. So when there’s a word you should have remembered but didn’t, or you did remember but it feels weak, then maybe you can go to Youglish.com and get video snippets of native speakers using the word on YouTube, or you can ask an AI chatbot to create a bunch of sample sentences using that word, or use Reverso (with caution though because of errors). So in that way, Anki can anchor your daily language study sessions.

Anki is also good for annoying little details like noun gender, noun declensions, verb conjugations, syllable stress, and so on. It helps you get those right. Or remembering the right tones for a Chinese word. The sort of stuff that doesn’t seep in naturally via osmosis, because English doesn’t really have those features, so you’re not primed to pick up on them naturally.

But for the basic “what does this word mean”, while I do have cards for that, I find they’re sometimes problematic. Words will have multiple meanings surprisingly often (e.g., “flight” is the noun corresponding to both “fly” and “flee”), so how do you grade it in review if you remember some meanings but not all of them? Ideally each card should test exactly one item. So I deemphasize those kind of cards, because I think word meanings are precisely the sort of thing that does seep in through osmosis, through things like comprehensible input and chatbot learning sessions.

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Oh wow!!! I’d never seen that site before - that’s amazing, thank you for sharing it!

Interesting point.

I mostly learn using cards that go in the other direction - Spanish sentences with cloze words, an English hint for the meaning of the blank, and type the Spanish word.

So I don’t have a single card for all the meaning of a word, I can have as many Spanish sentences for it as it has meanings.

That context may be giving a bit of a boost I didn’t realize. (Some of it’s from words/context found while reading, some is from premade cloze sentences.)

I’ve written a bit about my process on reddit: Making a language-study deck: my workflow. Some of that is relevant here too.

There’s no special magic to it though. Whatever you do (beyond just repeating it to yourself) is probably going to help that word find a place in your memory. The point is to tie it to something, so you avoid needing to learn it by brute-force.

Yep, mnemonics like that are a perfect way to do this. The stranger they are, the smaller they are, the more visual or physical they are, and the more naturally they come to you – the better. I preserve them one of my extra fields, so I can refer back to them if I continue to struggle with the word.

Some of mine:
From istikamet meaning “direction” – [it’s a stick pointing in the direction of Ahmet]
From yakmak meaning “to ignite” – [set a yak on fire]

I bet the conjugations for those are different, right? It might help you to focus on the correct conjugation.

[A good sign that you don’t need to study that word – or at least you shouldn’t spend time studying it yet.]

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For some reason, I thought everyone knew about this website. Your target language should have websites with etymology and definitions of words. This is useful even for your own language. For example: https://www.etymonline.com/ and CONCEAL | English meaning - Cambridge Dictionary
In the second example, the word “to prevent something from being seen or known about:” is mentioned, and I disagree with people who say it’s the same as “hide.” You always need to delve into the definition, even in your own language, to understand. People talk about synonyms, but in fact, each word can be used for something, and the full meaning will be completely different.

If you’re talking about mnemonics, it’s more useful to come up with your own, but there’s also the website https://mnemonicdictionary.com/, maybe it’ll surprise you too.

I can’t speak about similar websites in other languages, especially the one you’re studying, since I’m not a language specialist, meaning I’m not a philologist.

I once made cards with either a button or a link to get help from such sites, but now you can ask the AI ​​about it, and it’s very convenient. However, sometimes you have to check it, because it can also lie.