[Feature Request] FSRS Should Ignore Learning Cards Reviews

In a Nutshell

If rating ‘again’ during learning steps multiple times, for example 4 ‘again’ ratings will make D: 98%, S: 0.02 days.

We need time at first to get new/harder cards well in our mind, but FSRS, instead of helping, gives an “again tax” (high D, low S) to pay in your lifetime as lower intervals for new/harder cards, even if later rated good multiple times.

There’s a lot of forgetting and relearning that happens with new/harder cards [1].

We can make some of these forgetting and relearning loops (again, good loops) happen in learning steps without affecting memory state (D, S, R, etc.) by letting FSRS ignore learning steps.


Learning Languages with FSRS

I’m learning English using a good premade deck like 4000 Essential English Words (all books) [en-en], but with type answer.

For new cards, I will surely see the words for the first time, which is why there are learning steps. However, FSRS still affects learning cards.

For me, I need at least 4 ‘again’ ratings to get 3 things correct (the meaning of the word, pronunciation, typing).

Please don’t suggest making your own deck so you learn the cards before review. Creating a deck like 4000 Essential English Words (all books) [en-en] would take a huge amount of time.

Even so, I will forget what I learned, as when making cards I don’t focus on learning the cards. Instead, I focus on how to make cards that follow The Twenty Rules of Effective Learning (get pic, get audio pronunciation, be short, use cloze, etc…).

I usually learn new topics inside Anki by trial and error (learning steps).


again tax

Quote: "ease hell". This is not a problem that FSRS suffers from. By keeping your learning steps under a day, you will allow FSRS to schedule cards at times it has calculated are optimal for your material and memory. from Anki manual, Learning and Relearning Steps section

It seems for me there is still “ease hell” but a little aggressive.

If you try to learn inside Anki or forget what you learned before Anki (rating ‘again’ during learning steps), you will pay an “again tax” (high D, low S) for your lifetime as lower intervals for your new/harder cards.

e.g.

  1. Understand/learn the topic on your own

  2. Make the card

  3. Review the card (but for any reason, you forget what you learned before Anki)

  4. Multiple ‘again’ ratings

  5. “again tax” for your lifetime

Explained:

  • After 4 ‘again’ ratings, the difficulty becomes 98%. Based on my test with Anki 25.06b5 OOTB (using FSRS default parameters and a 10m learning step), you will need about 783 ‘good’ ratings after 4 ‘again’ ratings to bring the difficulty back to 12%. If you grade ‘good’ on the first review, you get 12% difficulty immediately.

  • After just 18 ‘good’ ratings after 4 ‘again’ ratings, the intervals will be 2800 days (about 7.5 years). You can get the same 7.5 years with just 5 ‘good’ ratings if you grade ‘good’ on the first review, saving about 13 repetitions (about 60% fewer cards).

(Take this with a grain of salt.)


Comparison Shows “again tax”

Comparison of Grades 1111333333 vs 3333 (if FSRS ignores learning cards reviews) using FSRS default parameters FSRS Visualize


Simulate normal use in Anki: grades 1111333333 vs 3333 (if FSRS ignores learning cards reviews) using FSRS default parameters and 10m learning step in Anki 25.06b5 OOTB

Grades: 3333

Grades: 1111333333


What I’m Doing Now (Not Sure if This Is Correct)

Reset the card manually

With the use of this add-on: See Previous Card Ratings in Reviewer :see_no_evil_monkey:

When I see something like this, I reset the card manually using Ctrl + Alt + N

Change difficulty (multiplier) parameter (Do it at your own risk, I haven’t tried it)

FSRS default parameters

w=0.2120, 1.2931, 2.3065, 8.2956, 6.4133, 0.8334, 3.0194, 0.0010, 1.8722, 0.1666, 0.7960, 1.4835, 0.0614, 0.2629, 1.6483, 0.6014, 1.8729, 0.5425, 0.0912, 0.0658, 0.1542

Add 0.0250 to difficulty (multiplier) parameter number 8

w=0.2120, 1.2931, 2.3065, 8.2956, 6.4133, 0.8334, 3.0194, 0.0250, 1.8722, 0.1666, 0.7960, 1.4835, 0.0614, 0.2629, 1.6483, 0.6014, 1.8729, 0.5425, 0.0912, 0.0658, 0.1542

After changing difficulty (multiplier) parameter

Grades: 3333

Grades: 1111333333


Related Features

Why does FSRS take into account all same-day reviews for new cards

[TODO] Option to disable stability_short_term

But closed, not sure why, as said here: Feat/option enable_short_term in training.


Suggestions

  • Implement a toggle in FSRS settings to allow users to choose whether reviews within learning steps affect the card’s memory state.

  • If the current behavior is intended, clarify in the documentation how FSRS interacts with learning steps and the potential impact of multiple ‘again’ ratings.

  • Rename “learning steps” as misleading when FSRS is active, as FSRS affects learning cards. To initial interval steps with info: FSRS still updates the memory state but you control the initial interval steps and Recommended: intervals < 1d.


Examples from Reddit (Maybe Caused by This FSRS affects Learning Cards)

FSRS - Daily reviews inevitably increasing

Original poster Actual-Artichoke-436 said:

My theory is that FSRS is making me study recent cards way too much, and I'll eventually fail on some of them at some point since I study them so often. I think I'll actually do better with having those cards spaced up a bit more. To be honest, I noticed that FSRS is making the intervals smaller and smaller for new cards as I keep optimizing, making me study so much of them that I eventually suffer from it.

Comment by OP

I feel the same. I actually felt this way right before switching to FSRS. It was easier for me to learn new vocabulary because I became familiar with the kanjis.

I feel like it's not about me struggling with my cards, it's actually easier for me rn, but FSRS makes it hard for new vocab to graduate as they pile up until it actually makes me struggle.

Comment by Brock4545

Well I don’t really understand what happened, when I was using the old system I would get to max 200 reviews a day but as soon as I swapped to FSRS I have been at 400+ most days every since.


Please close/low-priority label if you think this is a useless/not-now feature, as maybe I have a wrong idea about how FSRS works.

Thank you.


  1. What Anki Learning Steps To Use ↩︎

1 Like

If you don’t consider same-day reviews every card with the same initial rating gets the same stability which is not accurate. So, you’ll end up with cards that you know well enough with much lower initial S.

And the whole deleting reviews that you’re doing is also negatively affecting things for you.

Also, if it’s any assurance the changes that are made to FSRS are benchmarked first, so it was checked whether including all same day reviews improve things or not.

No, bad idea. Most people would’ve no idea what this is.

I think documentation of technical details just make the manual harder to read. And it motivates people to “game” the system.

I don’t see why we should rename it.


Complaints about too many reviews can be seen even before FSRS switched to using all learning step reviews.

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Anki, though, is a system to help you remember, not one to use for learning the content at first. Thus it has been set up with remembering in mind, not the initial uptake of the knowledge.

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Yes, I trust the entire Anki team and thanks a lot of their hard work.


Didn’t get why it will negatively affect things?
After I got the first review (When the card graduated), I stop doing this.


You mean as I did, sorry I’m still learning Anki even after reading a lot, it seems it’s not enough.


From the name, ‘learning steps’ means you learn the card, but FSRS affects all the steps, so the name maybe misleading.

and as matta said Anki for remember, not learning, so it confuses some people like me into thinking these learning steps are for learning and not affected by FSRS.

But I believe learning with trail and error (learning steps, but with press again as you like without being afraid of FSRS until you get the first good) is the best.

If you fail a card thrice during learning stage, it probably will have lower stability than a card you failed once in learning stage. And FSRS will have no way to figure this out, if you delete the reviews (the reviews in learn stage are still called reviews btw).

FSRS doesn’t affect your learning steps, but it has to use the reviews from learning stage to determine the graduating interval (and the ivls after that).

Yeah, you can do that and it’s fine. Just don’t delete the reviews.

2 Likes

Please don’t ping people unnecessarily. The developers will see your request in due course.

1 Like

I didn’t mean this, I just used the chance to thank them.
I removed all tags, and as I said, this maybe an unnecessary feature, and I won’t bother anyone.

If you just optimise and don’t delete reviews, FSRS should take care of everything else. It’s not possible for FSRS to not take into account the learning steps.

By the way, you have the option of learning things inside a filtered deck, if you want to isolate the reviews. I don’t recommend it though.

2 Likes

If I use Anki normally to learn a card and become good at it (getting my first ‘good’ and the card graduates as I have only one learning step), I will reset it to prevent FSRS from seeing all my ‘agains’ and giving me an “again tax” for the lifetime of this card.

This is the same as if I used a custom filtered deck without rescheduling cards to learn something, then used Anki normally, right?

The idea is that I’m learning inside Anki, so there are a lot of ‘agains.’ (trial and error).
So I don’t want FSRS to see my previous reviews at all.

Yeah.

This only makes sense if the parameters were fixed, this hypothetical “again tax” is something FSRS can adjust based on your reviews anyway. If you delete reviews, you’ll just get less accurate predictions.

3 Likes

If I always optimizing FSRS parameters fix high D and low S?

here compare by FSRS (2023)

why you pay for one again for your lifetime?, believe me I already got the card?
I just won’t get lower intervals (high review per day), cuz I learning inside Anki for the first time.

The FSRS library does have an option to ignore short-term (same-day) reviews in training, but Anki does not currently expose any way to set this option: Feat/option enable_short_term in training by L-M-Sherlock · Pull Request #258 · open-spaced-repetition/fsrs-rs · GitHub

Versions of FSRS before FSRS-5 always ignored short-term reviews.

3 Likes

Versions of FSRS before FSRS-5 always ignored short-term reviews.

Yep, and not ignoring them improved accuracy a little.

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Easily, You can use Custom Study function. and then use FSRS to schdule normally.

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Yes, but if we have no awareness of the problem, we won’t use a custom deck for new cards or reset manually, as I thought before. The learning step has no effect on FSRS.

Maybe there is a better way if we used FSRS through custom scheduling, as the script said:
// FSRS only modifies the long-term scheduling. So (re)learning steps in deck options work as usual.
I tested it, and it seems to me it’s not affecting the learning cards.

You can always get the latest version of FSRS scheduling from here and follow this tutorial to set it up through custom scheduling.

You can also use the built-in optimizer to get optimized parameters and update them in the script. Then, disable FSRS built-in to make sure the custom FSRS is the only one working.

I also tried adding 0.0250 to the difficulty (multiplier) parameter 8 for a while now, and the cards return to normal difficulty faster than usual, so the intervals are increased as well. It seems to affect only cards with high difficulty, and for cards with low difficulty there isn’t a difference, and this is perfect. I will continue with this option for now.

Because the card is more likely to be a leech if you press again in the first time. Maybe some of them are not, but FSRS cannot distinguish them. If you have high confidence that the card is not a leech, I recommend reseting it and pressing good.

1 Like

This concept applies if I learn well before using Anki.

There are not a small number of people using premade decks, so they will see the cards for the first time, e.g., language decks.

The idea is that we gave the user some time before we decided if this card was a leech or not. If we let FSRS ignore the learning steps, the user has the option to customize their learning steps as our minds and our decks are different. We may need two steps for learning deck X and four steps for learning deck Y before we know if this card is a leech or not. Continuing this way, we might develop bad habits, like never pressing “again” on the first review, as Shige yuki said

You are suggesting to change FSRS without even trying to use it. If you can’t trust FSRS with the entire collection, then at least try it on a separate deck.

I don’t see anything to do with your problem. I also abuse “Good” to avoid seeing the card too much in one day. But that’s not an FSRS problem, it’s anki’s problem.

Implementing part of the functionality of this addon would solve the problem.
https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/1255924302

When you learn cards in Anki, the cards whose first rating is good are still easier than cards whose first rating is again. Maybe the difference is smaller. If so, FSRS will learn it from your review logs.

1 Like

They’re talking about all learning steps, not just same day learning reviews.