Add a 5th grading button

The proposed 5th button would be in between Again and Hard. It would be called “Almost”
For example, this button is meant to be a weaker version of again.

The usages for this include, when you get a card that asks something, you answer incorrectly, but your answer was very close. For example in a medical context:
What bacteria causes this disease?

Hard/Good/Easy: Staphylococcus Aureus
Almost: Staphylococcus Epidermidis
Again: Bacillus Anthracis or No answer

I believe, that if we have 3 correct answer buttons to differentiate with, then we should have another for incorrect answers. In my opinion, I believe there is a huge difference between not knowing the answer at all and being very close to it.

I propose that the almost answer button would require the re-learning step, same as the again, just it has weakened “consequences” compared to again. Such as, if again changes difficulty by 30%, perhaps almost can do it by 15% instead.

While I do agree, more buttons can cause answer paralysis, this can be solved by enabling pass/fail buttons.

I know (from the Discord server) that you’re very committed to this idea. This is the first time I’ve seen you explain it in any detail. I’m not trying to poke the bear, but if you want it to be seriously considered – let’s flesh it out.

[I say all of this with the knowledge that the battle right now is between whether 4-button or 2-button grading will be default – so the likelihood of a 5-button option is very slim.]

  1. If you find that close answers are acceptable in real life – when you use this knowledge for whatever purpose – doesn’t the Hard button already satisfy that need? In that “close enough, but needs improvement” situation, you wouldn’t want to lapse the card.

[Because if a close answer isn’t acceptable in real life – that should clearly be graded Again, right?]

  1. Are you proposing this for SM-2 or FSRS? It would need different formulas/calculations for each algorithm, wouldn’t it?
  1. So the proposal is 5-button or 2-button grading? And 4-button would no longer be an option (without an add-on)?

  2. Aside from your belief that these cases (Again and “Almost”) should be treated differently, is there any basis in brain/memory/spaced-repetition science (or any analysis of Anki-user data) that suggests these cases should be treated differently?

  3. Have you considered building this (or asking an interested dev to build this) as an add-on first? That seems like it might be a necessary step to work out how this button would integrate with each algorithm (in terms of formulas, optimization, and what the presence/absence of those grades means) – not to mention how it would fit into the database/review log.

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  1. The issue with using the hard button for a close answer, is that hard is for correct answers. A close answer is incorrect. A recent incident in which a close answer would have helped me a lot is when I was studying my Greek deck. I was asked to translate “camp” into Greek. The word for camp in greek is κατασκήνωση (kataskinosi). I last saw this card 3 months ago and it’s interval slowly increased from a few days, to a month, two months and finally now 3 months. I did answer it correctly, because I said instead of “κατασκήνησω” (kataskiniso), which is a word that does not exist of course. Most Greek speakers would understand the error I made. I would be able to recognize that this word means “camp” if it was an article, or if it was my reversed note type card. I made a very close mistake by swapping around the last two errors.
    The issue is with again, now it treats the card so strictly. I haven’t gotten this card wrong yet I see it more often than I personally believe I need to. If there was a “close” answer button, perhaps I would see the card a third as less, or even half as less.

    This is not the only scenario that this has occurred in.

    1. I am proposing it for FSRS only.

    2. I was attempting to say that the answer paralysis problem is a bit of a divided issue. A lot of users I know have no issue at all with 4-button grading, a few I’ve asked have no issue with 5-button grading. Those who have issues with 4-button grading have opted into using the pass/fail buttons aka 2-button grading. So I believe, if one was to have an issue with answer paralysis regarding 5 buttons, they would also have issues with 4 buttons, which in either way, they would enable the pass/fail buttons.

    3. I do not have any basis at all or analysis, because I am not sure how one could objectify this to find data. I am very open in attempting to look at data or anything, but I am not sure how I could find it.

    4. I used an AI agent to help me code it as an addon. It is very rudimentary, but it works in this way.

    For an example, a card has 30% difficulty. If I were to hit again, the difficulty would increase by 30%, going to 60% difficulty. The close button would increase the difficulty by half of the again button, so it would increase by 15%, causing difficulty to go up to 45%. In the review log it just acts as I had pressed again.

I wonder if their idea was inspired by jpdb.io, which uses a system exactly like this (except it also has “never forget” so technically 6 buttons). It’s not a science, but jpdb.io is well-regarded in the Japanese learning community as having one of the best algorithms, and it’s sometimes mentioned alongside Anki as the better alternative algorithm-wise. I’d say Japanese learning community is the most tech-savvy and resourceful out of all language learning communities so I trust there’s some truth to that judgment. I don’t know which algo it’s based on but I don’t think it’s SM-2.

But like you, I’m not hopeful this suggestion will take off given the Anki community’s fervor for 2-button grading. I just know I’ll definitely use the 5th button myself. I see decision fatigue as a bell curve: It is the most difficult to decide when my heart feels like the result sits in the middle of two available options. Decreasing the options is one way to help, but many people overlook that more options also helps (fewer “in the middle” situations). With jpdb.io I’ve never had trouble deciding which button I should click, because my heart always aligns with one of the available options.

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Just to mention that the original SM-2 algorithm (and to date), failure included 3 grades. Null, Bad & Fail, being the null not present in the UI, as its use should be sparing. The difference between failure grades is negligible in the actual versions of the algorithm. It is closer to being a qualitative classification for the user.

as someone who often has “almost” cards and who understands the frustration, i know where you’re coming from and i even jokingly once mentioned that this button should exist, but in reality i don’t think there’s actually much to be gained from such a button. while it’s true that you’re technically grading the card harsher than it deserves, but in practice the card should quite quickly converge to reality anyway. i think that the difference between again and almost will be barely noticeable with FSRS, and should theoretically get even less noticeable over time.

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Anyone else have any thoughts, opinions or comments?

Who cares about my opinion? :slight_smile:
Everyone can have their own method, and people should be given the opportunity to choose what they want.
I don’t use the FSRS, although it’s good in many ways. Well, if you study regularly… but what if you don’t?
Sometimes I’m a proponent of the idea that you either know it or you don’t. That is, there should be two grades: you either cut the red wire or the blue one, and maybe there won’t be an explosion… but like in medicine, you can figure it out yourself :slight_smile:
Sometimes you can’t make mistakes, so even if you wanted an A, we’d sometimes get a grade lowered immediately for just one mistake—it’s very stressful.
But there are many fields of study that don’t require such strictness, but management personnel should still have excellent knowledge, without any “oh, I almost got it right… so what if the rocket is now flying toward the Sun” attitude. So, the A students are chosen to become managers, those who simply do well will become engineers, and those who get satisfactory grades will simply obey and listen to their superiors.
How should you grade cards if you have to pass an exam?
But how do you approach knowledge? Some teachers aren’t strict, saying if someone forgets something, just answer a couple of other questions. They seem to know, so they give them good grades. If a student agrees to this, why bother studying with 90-95% accuracy if it’s enough to review all the cards, discard the most difficult ones, and focus on the easy ones first?

As you can see, there are different strategies. You’ve also noticed that you need something different, and then give them another button… someone else will come along and give them another button, and so on. Well, if you want flexibility, you should let the user set a time limit for each button to determine when they should review a card. You say this exists… well, yes, you can set a deadline, and postpone a card until tomorrow. This has already been done, but it doesn’t address the convenience of the buttons.

Look at the available add-ons. Perhaps you could write something yourself, then try it all out, test it for a while, and then you can confidently say how convenient and necessary it is.

And further:
So, how do I proceed or advise proceeding before the exam? So, you have a deck or a subject, it doesn’t matter. You’re given a list of questions, and let all the questions be cards.
You review them and divide them into three categories:

  • I don’t know or this is very important (about 60%)
  • I remember something and they might ask about it (about 30%)
  • I know, I remember, or this is not important at all and I can at least somehow answer it on the exam (about 10%)
    During the study process, you might discover cards that simply don’t want to be remembered, so they’re put into a separate category (subdeck, deck) “for processing.”
    And it makes sense to start studying with the first category, the ones you don’t know or the ones that are very important.
    But this isn’t always the case. Ideally, you create decks based on what you already know, but many people don’t create their own decks, but study something directly from the anka. So the algorithm will be different: in the first step, the filtered deck is quickly reviewed in the order laid out by the author. In the second step, each card is studied in the same order (if you know a card, then you obviously don’t study it). In the third step, the cards you remember are marked, say, with a green flag. In the fourth step, you mark the cards you were able to remember the second time in a different color. Finally, in another step, you can select the cards that you’re having trouble with (don’t study from the cards, go read lectures and books). This way, you identify the varying difficulty of the cards and review these cards repeatedly, memorizing them.
    Caution!
    A typical mistake: you’re given 300,000 cards to know for an exam, and you simply start going through them all in order, thinking they’re all connected. Competent authors divide their decks into subdecks based on small topics and master one topic 100% before moving on to another.
    The solution: take an anki and have it toss you a card after 10 minutes. It seems to work, but you have to consider how much new information (cards) you’ll receive during that time. If you look at 300 new cards and think the algorithm will work, you’re mistaken, as you always have to consider the amount of new information (not cards, but information blocks, so for one person a card might be nothing new, they know everything, while for another it’s all new and they’re just fooling themselves, thinking they didn’t remember what they remembered; they’ve learned to recognize it). The algorithm will only be able to figure this out if you repeatedly fail to remember a given card, although you could identify such cards earlier and set specific parameters for that subdeck: for simple cards, you can do it after 20 minutes, for complex cards, maybe even after 3 minutes. I can’t tell you how to do this with FSRS, but people seem to be satisfied over long periods of time, and those who are dissatisfied don’t post on the forum, but instead go on to find their ideal program or method.

So, time certainly plays a role in spaced repetition, but so does information volume… I haven’t heard anything about that, but teachers have known and talked about it for a long time: learn 3-5 words in phrases and in a circle, and be sure to repeat them out loud. After you’ve learned these phrases, move on to the next ones, then combine those 5 with the previous 5 and repeat again. Learn the entire text this way.

In my opinion adding more buttons isn’t a good way to go, unless data shows that it’s actually better to have more buttons. People already struggle with 4 buttons (or at least using those 4 buttons consistently), adding yet another one won’t make it better for those people.

But in general, I think the issue you have should be fairly simple to solve by redefining how you use the already existing 4 buttons.

If you don’t study regularily then FSRS will work just fine. Of course over due cards have been taken into account during the creation and optimization of the FSRS algorithm.

That’s actually what the buttons describe already.
I knew it = hard, good, easy
I did not know it = again

The reason there are 3 buttons for “I knew it” is that there’s actually a difference in how well you knew the info. So learning becomes more efficient if you actually take those into account.

You probably just made a mistake while writing this (e.g. used a wrong word) but to clarify: the algorithm won’t change. It doesn’t matter if you create the cards yourself or use cards that already have been created: the algorithm itself is the same one that will be used regardless of who created the cards (SM-2 or FSRS won’t change).

But you are right, of course, that it’s a much better idea to create your cards yourself and to do so with topics you already learned and only need to study.

(And regarding most other stuff you wrote: that’s very subjective and I don’t really see the scientific or logical evidence in a lot of your claims. You probably just wrote your opinion as asked but the way you write it sometimes makes it seem like it’s a fact, even though it mostly isn’t)

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and, it’s probably important to mention, that kind of argument is exactly why the 2-button setup exists, and why people argue it should be the default (that’s not the discussion here, but that point was solved).

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This is not a program algorithm, but an algorithm of actions for better memorization described below.

(Regarding most of the rest of what you wrote: it’s very subjective, and I don’t see scientific or logical evidence for many of your assertions. You’re probably simply stating your opinion, as requested, but the way you write it sometimes gives the impression it’s fact, even though in most cases it isn’t.)

I didn’t say it was proven fact, as usual, by three labs in different countries. But simple logic doesn’t tell you that it’s one thing to learn one word in 10 minutes and then repeat it, and then learn a million words, so what will you know in 10 minutes?
There are resources for everything, and memory too, it requires both energy and time to form new connections. So there must be a dependence on volume, but I won’t go into that. I see this from life experience. And the fact that people are different, meaning each has their own speed of memorization, that is, the formation of these connections, already suggests that it’s not worth lumping everyone into a single system; everyone is different, and a single algorithm alone won’t solve this perfectly. Anki simply tracks when you might theoretically forget, rather than how accurately you’ve memorized something. The goal of Anki’s algorithm is to minimize repetition while maximizing memorization. If a person sees that everything works, they’re satisfied; if they see something the author doesn’t like, they try to change something. So, while it’s possible to listen to others—every super-polyglot has a ton of such advice—the reality is that those who become polyglots are often good listeners and have perfect memories. So, if we test algorithms and their effectiveness, we should do so on the average person, and then we can understand what matters. But in essence, teachers do this, just not with technical means; it’s often tutors who do it—those people who make students review the material daily, assuming they visit the student that often.

I have written a very rudimentary addon (AI has written through my guidance), but I am not sure how it would affect FSRS, which is why I do not use it at the moment.

Edit: I learned it would negatively impact FSRS.