It rolls right off the tongue – relretrodueness ~
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I thought we did a fine job just explaining in the docs how overdueness is calculated back when one of them was still called “relative overdueness”. It’s still not updated so you can look at Deck Options - Anki Manual.
When using FSRS, overdueness is calculated based on on each card’s retrievability,and the desired retention in the deck preset.
But that requires people to leave the app and read the manual. We all know how often people do that.
In this case I didn’t even think to look in the manual for asc/desc retrievability because I thought I knew what it meant, but the name was a bit misleading (even if it has a similar effect to what I expected).
https://www.reddit.com/r/Anki/comments/1hwgv2d/question_regarding_sort_order_ascending/
This is exactly what I was worried about - users being confused about arcane terms.
The choice of wording is an issue, though.
Descending retrievability → Least forgotten first. “Least forgotten” isn’t really correct. “Least likely to be forgotten” is technically correct, but that’s too long.
“Least overdue first” is good IMO.
@sidereal as you can see, descending/ascending retrievability is not clear at all. At least one user found it to be unclear, and honestly, I’m surprised that it’s just one. Even I can’t instantly tell whether “descending retrievability” or “ascending retrievability” is the “show me cards that I am least likely to forget first”, I have to actively think about it for 1-2 seconds. And I consider myself to be pretty knowledgeable when it comes to these things. So yeah, I’m surprised that so far I’ve only seen one post from a confused user. We really need clear naming.
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My vote is on “least/most overdue first”. (also, there was already a thread but as u saw, no consensus).
I don’t think you’ll move anything forward faster by fragmenting/abandoning/restarting the discussion, so I’ve merged this back into your existing thread.
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Overdueness depends on the settings of the subdeck the card is from.
Why not “most retrievable first”?
Or “most recallable first”
That doesn’t sound very intuitive. “Most recallable first” is better, though.
The sort order takes that into account making “most retrievable/recallable first” incorrect.
So “Ascending retrievability” is just “Relative overdueness” for FSRS?
It is. Only the naming was changed.
Hi all,
Quickly jumping in, as a n00b who just recently started poking around Anki. I landed on this thread after looking up the documentation for filtered decks (sorry, I tried to add a hyperlink, but I am not allowed).
More specifically, the documentation talks about Relative overdueness, while the UI talks about retrievability, which got me to Google to understand better what is going on.
My two cents (a.k.a. this is what I would do if I had to try something with one of my services at work):
- Stick to the correct terminology, and rely on documentation to explain the user what the terms mean.
- Make sure the documentation reflects the UI.
I.e. replaceRelative overduenesswithRetrievabilityin the wiki page. - Simplify the explanation of the behavior as much as possible.
- Reduce the friction to get to the help page.
E.g., consider moving the help button. Or add an extra note when you know the user might get stuck/confused.
I hope this helps. And thanks a lot for the hard work.
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Retrievability and relative overdueness are not the same, though
Retrievability = probability of recall
Relative overdueness can be defined in different ways, and in fact, it’s calculated differently depending on whether you have FSRS or SM-2 enabled. When FSRS is enabled, it also takes into account desired retention, since, for example, a card with a 90% probability of recall would be overdue if your desired retention=95%, but not if your desired retention=85%.
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Retrievability and relative overdueness are not the same, though
Fair enough, I don’t have any reason to doubt this. My point still remains, though. The documentation does not entirely reflect what I find in the UI (see screenshots below).
The way I see it, consistency between these two elements, and a clear explanation of what the terminology means, is the immediate issue to solve. I’d focus on this for now, given that the search for new “names” appears to be stuck. My two cents.
Documentation
UI
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@sorata @Danika_Dakika wanna make a PR to the manual?
I’m pinging you guys because you often do manual-related stuff
There are many things that need updating in the manual – especially keeping up with the UI.
PRs are welcome.
When the update to those sort orders was implemented, I recall that it was only going to be visible for FSRS users – SM-2 users would still have Relative Overdueness" – since “Retrievability” is meaningless for them. I don’t know what the current status is on that, but that would be a factor to consider in whether and how to update that section of the manual.
I’d love to help with the documentation, but as you mentioned:
I don’t think it’s my place to touch anything, at least for now that I am barely a n00b learning how the tool works.
Cheers
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